The Heywood Club, Crockett Ridge, Norway On November 12, 2025, three long-time members of the Heywood Club gathered around a table to recount some stories of the Club and the neighborhood it has served since 1903. The recollections of Emilia Fogg (EF), Evelyn Marshall (EM, referred to as Evy in the recording) and Barbara Townsend (BT) are transcribed by Carol Rice (CR) for the Historical Society. CR: Well, enough to hit one point silence. EM: When it was 103, I was president that year. That's when we made the quilts. Yep, CR: yep, that was… ________Start BT: We've had a good time. We've had a very rich history at the Heyward Club. Many things that I can remember. I was talking to Emelia the other night at meeting and asking her if she remembered a few of the things, and one thing, for some reason, that stuck out in my mind was a Mrs. Thurlow, who used to come when we were young, and she did Bible classes, a week's Bible class in the summer. CR: So you didn't have to go to the Baptist church, or wherever? BT: No, no, she came right there to the Heywood Club, and she would set up all her things, and we always had little projects that we worked on, and different things, and she taught us some of… read some of the Bible to us, and so forth, and was very interesting, and I used to look forward to it every summer. I'm quite sure Emelia did, too. EF: So, yeah, I remember them having it up at our house... BT: Yup. EF ...years ago. And I was a little girl, and I don't know how old I was, 4 or 5 maybe, or something. Oh, wait, I'm thinking of something else. Well, it was the teenagers that put her car… they put her car up on cement block type things, so that when she started, she didn't know it was done, and she started that and was gonna go, and it wouldn't go anywhere, because the tires just went around, you know. Teenage boys did it. CR: They did this to who? EF: The teacher. Oh, the… oh, while she was teaching. BT: Yeah. EF: Well, no, while she was probably saying goodbye to my parents or whatever, you know. BT: So… Probably one of my brothers. That sounds about like Bright??. EF: I've had Kurt Palmer and a few of the others in the neighborhood who could not help themselves. EM: I didn't live in the neighborhood then. I guess it's lucky that I am. CR: So, when did each of you join the Heywood Club, and why did you do that? BT: Well, I joined back when I was a teenager. Ahh. The reason I did was my mother was involved in the Club, and I really liked the Club. I liked socialization, I always liked to talk and be around people, and um I think I was probably somewhere around 15 or 16 when I first joined the Club. CR: And not to give away too many secrets, what year would that be, sort of? BT: Oh, that would have been probably in 19… '58, '59, somewhere in there. CR: But you'd been going with your mother? BT: Yep, yep, yep. EF: Yeah, I think I joined when I… after I was married. I think it might have been in 1962. Yep. CR: And because you were living in the neighborhood. EF: Yeah, we originally lived in my cousin's house, Albert's house, over here. Albert Frechette, his house, so… BT: That's cool. Yeah. EM: I didn't live in the neighborhood. I lived on Pleasant Street. But they didn't have members except the neighborhood. And it was the year that Ernest... BT: Frechette... EM: ...Frechette had the barn and house fire. That was in '75, I think it was. BT: I believe it was back then. EM: And we were up there watching the fire, everybody was. And after the fire, the next day, we went up and helped. Hay. And somebody asked me if I would be interested in being a member. And I said: I'd love to. So I joined. Yep. BT: No, it's a… it's been a great thing for the neighborhood over the years, because we've had so many things go on. We used to do ..um.. dinners, public suppers, and public dinners. We did a public dinner in the fall for Veterans Day. EM: Yeah. BT: Brought it up the other day, and we used to have a lot of people who would come to that. A lot of the teachers and so forth always came. I remember John Roberts and his wife and several others that, always participated in that, look forward to it every year. Um. They don't do things like that as much anymore, and I wish they did, 'cause I feel bad that we can't do that, but, you know, it's one of those things that's wonderful memories. EM: We did one, the last one that we did, we invited all of the neighborhood. Remember that? BT: I do. EM: And it was a lunchtime. CR: Was that for Veterans Day, or that was just the… EM: Yes, yeah. And that was quite a few years ago. We haven't done it since. EF: I'm not going to have a lot of these memories that they have, because my husband went back in the Marine Corps in 1966, and so I was really pretty much gone for 17 years during… didn't come back till '83. CR: Well, that's still… '83 is now, sort of, still a long time ago. EF: Yeah, but I'm just saying there was 17 years there were… the things they're talking about I didn't know about. You know. CR: Um..those suppers were really a… or luncheons were really a mainstay of… lots of people knew about them and came to them... EM: Oh yes. CR: ..and one question that… that… somebody offered to me was, how did you get all the people in there? And I couldn't remember if… you timed them, or… but people can't… I remember…distinctly trying to come early, because there was a woman who made the best, um, custard pies. But.. EM: Uhhh CR: What happened to the people who weren't here, like, in the first sitting? BT: Usually people just congregated outside and talked and socialized, and they all pretty much knew each other from the coming for the dinners and so forth, and the luncheons and whatever. So they would just have a good time remembering different things about the Club, and…talking things over, and catching up on the old news, and… which I think was a good thing. We could seat, I believe, 55. That was pushing it. And then we would have another setting, and so forth, that people would just… they just couldn't go. When 2 or 3 got up and left, 2 or 3 more would come in and take their place and sit down, and… It seemed to work fine. We didn't really do any specific seating or times. CR: When… and do you always remember doing those suppers, or… BT: I remember participating in them before I was a member, probably. CR: Right, yeah, so it was really a long tradition. BT: Yeah, it was a long tradition. CR? And when was your last one? EM: A long time ago. Yeah, a number of years ago. Yeah. We had our own China --remember?--dishes, real dishes, not paper plates? Oh, yeah. . BT: And the funny part was, we had to haul our water to wash our dishes in, because we still don't have running water at the Club, which is something I would love to take… have done, but… I don't know. We'll… maybe eventually. We'll see. EM: It was fun. It was… we had a good time doing it. We were busy, and the kitchen help was hilarious. BT: Yes, to say the least. Pearly Goodwin used to get in the kitchen and wash dishes. She wouldn't do anything else, but she'd stand there and wash dishes, and she would entertain us with her…humor, and she had the best humor of anyone I ever knew, so… EF: No, it's fine. She's my aunt. Oh! CR: And what were some of her jokes? BT: Or… No. Just… just…everyday things, you know, she could pick up on anything. You could say something, and she… it would bring back a memory to her, and she would tell about… I remember one time we were talking, and she got talking about the old horse that they had, and she said, that poor old horse, she said, it dragged us around. She said, we used to take it downtown when we… when we shouldn't have. She said, we would travel Pleasant Street. And she said, there was one time I didn't think that poor old horse was gonna make it up over that hill over there. She said, we ended up kind of pushing it and dragging it all at the same time to get it home. She just...just stories of things that she would tell about herself and Emelia's mother, and…Sherry Frechette next door here was one of the sisters. Oh, the Frechette family and the Noble family were all around us, so… course when my folks moved here, back in 1943, they bought the Mellie Dunham homestead across the street over here, and they kept that until after my dad passed away, and then my Mum had to sell, but ...it was fun, because we were… Every… we were just friends with everyone in the neighborhood. That's all. It was… it was a great time, and the Heywood Club brought a lot of that together. We are… a lot of our historical records that are down at the Historical Society. I've...I've read through so many of the different books, and just passing time in the wintertime, just reading through, because it was…some of the stories in there, and some of the meetings that they had, and the things that they used to do, and donate to people, and give to people, and… It's so much fun reading in those history books. I've got some I haven't even been through sometime. I hope to get down there and read some more of them, because it's just… It was… I found it extremely interesting. CR: Well, I think your… your sort of, motto is neighbors helping neighbors, right? BT: Yes, it is. CR: And so, you've helped a lot of neighbors. EM: We have. BT: We have. We've raised a lot of money over the years to help people here in the neighborhood. I know when the Frechette family got burned out, I believe we earned over $1,000, and back then, that was a good sum of money to earn. And then, Ralph Richardson, not Ralph--can't think of his name...drove bus for years-- EM: Lew??.. EF: Lewis.. BT: ... Lewis Richardson. He got sick and had… his wife did, and had a, well…rare disease type thing, and we raised quite a bit of money for them. And, actually, that's where our scholarship fund started from, was that when Lou?? passed away, his wife decided to start a scholarship in his name, or for the Heywood Club, and that's when that all started. That was back in the… back in the '80s, but I don't know just when in the '80s. Ad then when Lil Thurston, Lillian Thurston, passed away, her family donated more to it. I donate… we donated from my family when my dad passed away. But it got to the point that was… things have changed for the Club. It's hard. You know, every organization has found it difficult to keep membership. Far back… back years ago, that was a thing to do, because…everybody'd get together once a month, and all sit around and talk, and you catch up on what families were doing, and… EM: Yes. It was ... neighborhood. EF: It started out as a reading Club years ago. The ladies would read, and you know, and you hear about the Club downtown that was for the men, and you had the Heywood Club. I don't know if there was more than one woman's Club around, but there was…that one for the men, where they would get together and talk. They'd probably… complain about their wives or whatever. Women are being complaining about… EM: They call that Weary Club. EF: Yeah, Weary. That's what I was trying to come with the word. Yeah. BT: Yeah, the Browning Club. We've had a little bit of dispute with them over the years, the reading Club, because they say they're the oldest women's Club in Norway, and I dispute it highly, but they haven't been able to come up with a date yet, so I don't really… I'm not sure. EM: I have always said we were the first ones. BT: I did too, and I'm gonna stick by it until I'm proven wrong, and then I'll gladly accept it. EF: ..but… Well, you figure what life was like back then. They were just wives of, like, farmers. You know, and they just didn't do anything, they just got together to talk to other women and read books and stuff. So, and talk about those books. BT: And they also swapped magazines, because one family would buy a magazine, and magazines were expensive back then, and…money was at a premium, and they would share those magazines every time they met. They would go to a different person, you'd sign the inside of it. I wish we had some of them now, but we don't. And, ah, one of the things you don't think about back then. CR: Right. BT: And, they would sign them, and then they'd bring them back the next meeting, or leave it at the Club in between. Back then, we didn't used to have to lock the Club, so anyone could use it, but CR: Yeah. BT: Yeah, we all know what that is today, yeah. But it was ah ... so it was, it was…was just a fun time. It was a nice time. It was a great time in life. I remember we used to have the Halloween parties back when we were little, and oh, Lord, they'd have blankets and under, we'd put our hands underneath, and… EF: Rowena Palmer. BT: Oh, yes, she was a good one. EF: She did it, and she would be telling a story, and we'd be passing stuff around. They'd come to somebody's eyeball, and you'd… probably it was a… peeled grape. Peeled grape, and we'd be passing that around. We wouldn't see what it was, but our hands were underneath this blanket. It was weird. EM: We had a mystery house up over in the attic. Yep. BT: Yep, we did one year. Yeah. EM: Yeah. BT: That was fun. EM: Okay. Fun and games, and… Consideration for other people. CR: And you did a lot of cooking for the neighborhood, too, if somebody was sick, I think I heard about... EM: Yeah, we did that. BT: Yeah, we did. We've always provided for someone who was sick, couldn't… cook for a while or do anything. It's kind of… It's gotten less and less over the years, because people rely on food they can put in the microwave, and they don't have to do as much today, so it's a little more difficult to do those. You know, it's not wanted as much, I will say. But we still do it for people who would like to have that help. And a... CR: Tastes better... BT: Yes. Oh, yes, much better. Much better for you, but… I always look forward to it. If I was sick and something happened, I knew somebody was gonna bring something really nice. Evy used to make me an apple pie every time. Emelia makes the best peanut butter fudge, and… EM: You've got it down pat. CR: One of the things… somebody just contacted the Historical Society ... about a special favorite cake that Cora Dinsmore made. BT: I've been trying to trace that down, and I have not been able to. I have some pictures that needs to go to a family member. In fact, it would be Cora's… niece. And I have not been able to…catch up with her yet. She has a summer place here on Norway Lake, and as soon as I do, I will find out if I can… if she might have that recipe somewhere, because I think it would have been passed down through. I have a lot of recipes, and I've looked through them, that… I worked for one of the... Janetta Allen, who was Cora's daughter, and she lived here in the neighborhood, and I worked for her for a couple of years doing home care, and while I was there, she'd nap, of course, or whatever, and I, I would write down all these recipes. I bet I have, I don't know how many I wrote down, just to pass the time. EM: Yeah. BT: ...and I've looked through all of them, and I can't find anything about that cake, so I wish we could find something. But, I don't know, I'm kind of exhausted ... until I find… the address for her. I saw her this fall, and I… that was before they had put that out, or I would have asked her about it. So, if… worse comes to worse, she'll be back here in the spring, or her family will be, so… I will catch up then. CR: It's good to have a network. BT: Yes, it is. It is. Yep. EM: Really. BT: That's kind of what the Club was. It was a network of people that all worked together to help others. EM: Yup.. BT: I tried to figure out some more funny things that happened around here that… I remember we used to do the bowling suppers, at the end of their bowling year, they always had a celebration and so forth, and we always, for a number of years, we did those. And we had… we packed the house up there, and they would appreciate a good home-cooked meal. We always had, like, pot roast, or spaghetti, or different things like that that we could make go a long way, and, ah, they used to… they used to pay well at tips, I will say that, because that was when I was in high school, and I always volunteered to be one of the waitresses, because I always knew I was going to get a nice tip at the end. They put it all together, and there were usually three of us young… young people who went in and did that... EM: I never heard of that. BT: ...and we'd split that. You never knew that? EM: Yeah... CR: ...and so the bowling team was a…a community bowling Club from here. BT: Yeah, from here, yep. Bob Hobbs was usually the one who contacted us, so most everyone knew Bob. EM: Oh, gosh, yeah. We had a… era. Everything had quieted down, and our bank account was very low. We needed to do something to earn some money. So, I come up with an idea of Clowns for the parade, Christmas parade, and they paid $100 for us to be clowns. We had the best time, and the best clowns ...for years. BT: Yep, we did. We had an awfully good time doing that. EM: And then ... we outgrew them because we got older. EF: Yeah, was… ...didn't we have to walk? BT: Yes. Yeah. EM: Yeah, from Norway to Paris, or Paris to Norway. EF: Yeah. I can remember getting dressed up for that. EM: We could probably do it again now, all the exercise we do and stuff, but… BT: My, my... poor little feet would not take it today. I could ride it by four-wheeler, but that would be about it. I think Trudy used to… she used to ride in the four-wheeler. EM: And we always had four… BT" ...she carried the candy in there, and so forth. EM: And, and we had some of the members' kids…dress up, and walk with us, which… that was good. BT: Yeah, it was a lot of fun. EM: It was fun. We had fun. BT: Evy made a lot of the costumes for us. CR: I was gonna say, you made your… I was sure you probably all made your… EM: Oh, yeah, yep. And somebody was asking about the…And I… We don't have them anymore. BT: I know, we don't... I don't. EM: We hung them in the shed, and that was not the thing to do. BT: Nope. Too many little mices running around. CR: They're very hungry, too. BT: Yes, they are. EM: So then we come up with another idea later on, and it will..I will… I'll take credit for it, because there was… our family went… Up above Sebec….northern Maine, and to a 10-mile yard sale. And I suggested that we could have a… yard sale on our Ridge. Shall we start it out? And it was just a few people at first, and then we decided everybody else might want to be included. So now we call it a seven and a half mile. And we've done extremely well ...with donations. And it's been, it's been very good, well worth all the effort. EF: Yeah, well, you know, people along the way have a yard sale, basically, on both the Pleasant Street and Crockett Ridge. EM: Skowhegan, that's where it was, way up with. BT: We do all the advertising for free. Yeah. They don't have to advertise or anything. EF: And then we have it at the Heywood Club, too. BT: So, a lot of generous people, thankfully. Yeah. And, another thing that we used to do, we used to be in the parades. BT: In the summertime, they had a Bicentennial Parade, or whatever it was, I can't remember. For 2 or 3 years there, they had different ones, and we… we Bill Bedard, Emelia's' father built us a replica of the Heywood Club that was on… EM: I remember that. BT: …was on a trailer...and it had a great big fiddle across the front of it, and my mother, and myself, and Pearl Goodwin, and… Rowena Palmer, and I forget… I apologize for not remembering everyone, but I don't think there were many more than that, we dressed up in period costume, and we had the best day that day. One of them, and every time we did something like that, we always had so many laughs, and so many fun times, and…I'm glad I have a… can look back on all that now, 'cause it means a lot. CR: So, were there also dances at the Heywood Club? BT: Yup. There were. Years ago, there were dances at the Club. That was before my time. CR: Aha. BT: I know they started out, that's how they helped pay for the Club, to start one of the things. That's the one they got it done. It only cost $730, I think it was $736 and some odd cents. Oh, no, it wasn't. I'll go back on that. ....was built for $285.92 plus donated labor, and that was in 1905. And that Club has withstood the time. We have new siding on it now. And...we've done some on the inside, work on the inside. We have a new kitchen. And we had last year, we had it painted, and we had the roof done to keep it up, and now we're on a fundraiser right now, so that we can earn more money to finish up underneath. We need some shoring done underneath, so we're, we've come a long way with that, too. Yup. EM: We, at one time, needed to help paint… BT: We put the siding on the Club, us ladies did. I remember Ellen Millett scared me to death because she made me come out on the roof. She said, you can do that, just step out here, get out of here, I need help, come on! So I got out on the roof, and I was like, oh Lordy, Lordy, Lordy, and I don't like this at all. I had to grab hold of that piece of plywood-like stuff, it was that… I don't know what you call it, T something. But anyway, I helped her, I got it done, I got… I was never so glad to crawl back through that window in the attic as I was that day, I can tell ya. But we were bound we were going to do that by ourselves, and we did it. EM: ...we did it. Oh, we did have some men help...once in a while. BT: Yeah, we have. We don't mind the men helping. EM: No BT: We actually just redid our, now ... I can't think of what I want to say ...bylaws and constitution for the Club. It had never been touched since they started in 1903, when they first wrote it up. Well, some of the language in it and things were way out of date now, and a lot of people didn't even really know, understand what it was about, but… so, there were a group of us,... that got together during COVID. And we met mostly here at the house, and we'd each wear a mask and so forth, and we went through all those, we updated everything, and everything is up to date now. So, that was a good thing to get done, because…I know we have the original ones, and it's funny to read 'em. ...it really… CR: Well, don't lose the original. That would be the… BT: No, they're down in the Historical Society. CR: Oh, yeh. BT: Yep. No, we decided… I kept them here at my house for a long time, and we kept them at the Club in a container, I don't know...just a plastic container for a long time, but I could see that they were starting to go downhill, and it wasn't a good environment for them, so… decided that we should preserve them. So, that's where they are now. EM: Good. All good. It is. CR: And so did…. Mellie Dunham play at the Clubhouse? EF: Yes, he did, yep. CR: Since he was in the neighborhood. BT: Yeah, he did. Yeah, they used to have, some of the dances were held right across the street from where we're sitting now at his barn. He had a big barn over here, a three-bay barn, and it was huge. What was 3 bays back, and it went up 3 stories. And he... EF: They still had the barn when she lived over there. Because I used to play in the barn with you guys. BT: I know, I know. CR: Barns were good places to play. BT: They were. I used to scare my family to death. In fact, I had an uncle, which, this is kind of off the thing, but I had an uncle who was a little bit on the alcoholic side, and he used to come here every once in a while. He worked in the woods up in Upper Maine, and in the woods and so forth, and sometimes when he'd get on furlough or off, he'd come down here and spend a little time with us, and…one day, he had a little bit too much to drink, and he came in the barn, and I was up on the rafters.... up in the thing crawling across it, and he about had a fit. He almost… I don't know why he didn't have a heart attack, but… CR: Glad he didn't scare you. EF: Oh, no, he didn't scare me. I was… I was adept at doing that. I could crawl all over that place, but… CR: Would have been a gymnast now. BT: He, he used to…Mellie used to play over there, the fact there was a new floor up in there, one of the upstairs ones in the corner up there, and they used to open the downstairs, and they would serve little lunches, the ladies would all bring something, they'd have a break and serve lunch, and then they had them up to the hall to celebrate the opening of the hall. That was ... quite a time for them back then. Judge Barns, um, Judge Charles Barnes, in fact, his name was, and he dedicated the hall up there. He was from Norway, and then they had a big dance afterwards, and… CR: In 1903? BT: Yeah, that would have been in 1907. CR: Okay. BT: Yeah, when the Heywood Club was finally finished, and they had the grand opening, kind of like, and… yeah....dedicated it. EM: I think I had an anniversary party. BT: Oh, yeah. EM: 40th… 45-something at the Heywood Club, and I know Ray and Ellen did, too. EF: Yeah. I had one there, too. Yeah. BT: There have been lots of people.... EF: 25th, it was. BT: In fact, the fellow who painted our.. Club for us... He dedicated his time to it. He was retired, and he painted for us, as long as we bought the things. His Mum and Dad got married there, and then they had an anniversary party there, many years later. And he wanted to help us out, so he did it. He painted for free. CR: Oh, sweet. BT: Yeah, it was nice, and he kept telling little stories. EM: ...been a busy building, hasn't it? BT: Oh, birthday parties, and anniversaries, and weddings, and… CR: baby showers.. EF: ...wedding receptions, BT: ..wedding showers... yeah. Yeah. All kinds of things. We had that over there, too. Even… yeah, we've had funerals there. In fact, we just had a good-sized one a couple of years ago, actually, two of them, right in a row. EM: Yeah. BT: So it was… it's nice. People take advantage of that, and wanted to…..members were… were family members, so they wanted to…hold something back here that held a lot of memories... EM: Yes. BT: ... and good memories for them. ...which is nice. CR: Absolutely. BT: And we still do some catering. We don't do a lot, but we do some. We do for the funerals. Now, mostly, we have a…..small group of dedicated people who always help us out, and… EF: Peanut butter fudge....peanut butter fudge ... peanut... BT: I usually do deviled eggs, Evy does cream puffs. Sherry Morse up here, she always does a lot of the sweets. EF: She does, she does a lot of cooking. BT: She's probably one of the best cooks we have at the Club. EF: Yeah, she is. EM: Definitely. So, let's keep it alive. BT: Yeah, that's our motto. We're trying now to just keep the Club alive. We have had a few, membership drives in the last few years, and we have brought our membership back up. I think right now we're probably at, like, 58 or 59. CR: Oh. BT: We're climbing back up again. Not all are active. A lot of people just help out when they can, and donate, and do different things. We also have a Christmas tree, Lights of Love, that I do every year. EF: Yep. BT: I came up with it from an idea from my friend who lives in Sumner, and I said, do you mind if we start one up there? And she said, I don't know why we'd mind. She said, I think it'd be a great idea for you, and we've raised quite a bit of money through that. That'll be… we'll… I'll be putting that in the papers this coming week.. EM: ...very meaningful... BT: ... and let's…last year, we did one for the local young fellow who, EF: Dominic??, yeah, BT: Dominic, yeah, Dubont??, who, unfortunately took his own life, and we did that, and we raised, oh, well, $1,200 for his scholarship fund, and then we raised enough after that, so the Club got the usual of…close to $1,500, so we did very well last year. And we'll have it again this year. This year, we're not dedicating it to anyone special that I know of right now. I think we're just gonna do that. If I can… if I can find the decorations, I will. I have some decorations this year to be on the tree, too, but I… Unfortunately, somebody…took them from my brother's house, and I contacted him yesterday. It was an antique dealer, and he said, oh, oh, good Lord. He said, you can have them back. He said, I think I know where they are. He said, I'll be there Monday, and I'll let you know, so I'm kind of waiting. CR: Uggh. Yes. BT: So, but he's very good, so I'm sure he will. I told him what it was for. I said, I didn't realize that you had taken them. He laughed, he said, well, he said, your daughter kind of thought it'd be nice if I took them. I said, yeah. I said, if you ever need a sales lady, I said, you need to call on her, and he got to laughing. He said, yes, I know I do. EM: Really. BT: But back to the Club, it's, you know, I was just looking through here if there was anything in here that was…Oh, they did the Patriots Day Dinner, they did a… We used to meet once a month, and then we went to…in the wintertime, we don't meet anymore. The Club is not heated well. CR: Did you… years ago, you used to meet in the winter at the Clubhouse? BT: Yes, yeah, at someone's house, yep. CR: Oh, but not in the Club, usually. BT: No. No. CR: That makes sense. BT: No, after… I think in… we had a wood stove up until the 1970s, and then we, one of our members worked for one of the mobile home places here, and ah he got us a furnace that they put in the mobile homes that we put in up there, and it's worked well. EM: Yes, it has. BT: But it's on its last legs, it's that old. But, so we've been approached to probably maybe work on putting in a heater… a monitor heater, which would be much more efficient... EM: Yes. BT: ... than heating with gas, so… That we're looking in to. We try hard to keep it up, and I hope it does. You know, I know I'm not gonna be here that many more years, but as long as I am, I'm gonna stay as active as I can. EF: We're both older than she is. CR: Don't let her talk like that. EF: She talks like that. BT Sorry, ladies. I know, Evy's got 10 years on me. EM: I got 15 on her. CR: Oh, yeah, she put that note in my birthday card. Oh, okay. CR: And, what were some of the most challenging times. BT: I think probably the war years were some of the hardest. And then in the early 60s, for some reason, we seemed to drop off membership a little bit....um. CR: But most of the guys were gone… a lot of the guys were gone before... BT: They were gone, yeah, they did, and the meetings were… I know back then they used to roll bandages for the troops, and ah help out any other way they could, send what they could to help them out... and they did a lot of the farm work for their husbands, because they were busy. I know Lucian next door, he hauled lumber to the shipyard down in Portland, back then. My father said he and his boys worked… he said he didn't know how they ever did it. He said they worked so hard, it was awful. And a lot of them had farms, but some of the men were gone, so the women had to take over the duty of doing the farms. I know that was… they were challenging times back then, and then not a lot of money to go around. CR: Right. BT: You know. EF: Are we just talking about World War II? BT: Yeah, yeah. And then, of course, the Vietnam War came along... EF: Korea. BT: Yeah, Korea. Then Vietnam... So, it's been… And we've… we lost quite a lot of nice people, unfortunately. It's difficult. But… I don't know. It's just… CR: ....the days go by. BT: The days go by, and the times change. They really do. I've… it's…it's been good in some ways, that you see things, but in other ways, it's been really kind of sad. I look back on it, and I think…I wish some things that, like the friendships and the things in the neighborhood. I don't even know who a lot of my…neighbors are anymore. EM: I don't. BT: And I used to know everybody's car that went by, I used to know… they'd always beep or wave, and, you know. This is a funny little thing. Rowena Palmer one day, she was always flitting around the neighborhood and doing things, and she, one day, she just stopped out here, my husband was raking leaves outside the road here, and she stopped, and she came back, and she said, can I give you a hug today? And he said, sure. Why? She said, I don't know, I just wanted to give you a hug. She gave him a hug and said, thank you, and on her way she went. You know, those are the kind of things that you don't see today. Who would do that today? EF: Right. They'd be thought making stories already. CR: You know, or somebody would get out there with, you know, call 911 or do something menacing. People are not very friendly. BT: No, they're not. CR: Even at the grocery store, it's just, you know…. BT: Get out of the way. Move. Yeah, I really… yeah. CR: It's… it's very… it is very strange. EM: Oh, yes. BT: So we know those times will probably never come back, but we'll make our own new ones as we go along and...that's one nice thing about having the members of the Club. You still feel somewhat connected to people when you go to a meeting, and you meet people there, and you talk about different things, and, you know....We were gonna start a neighborhood watch a few years ago, and it just didn't kind of work through. They just… wasn't… people didn't really want to get involved. EM: Yeah. BT: I think that's one of the big things today. People don't want to get involved in things. And people's lives are so different. They're on the road, they're busy, they… two families are two… EF: Not on the road as much as they are on the phone. BT: Oh, yeah, on the internet, yeah. Lord, yes, don't say anything wrong, because it's gonna go somewhere. EM: We'll... edit this for you. EF: Well, she's right, there. BT: But we all have our sense of humors, that's the good thing about it. Yeah. CR: And who are some of the special people that you remember? EM: Oh, my word. BT: A lot of different people were. Oh. CR: If you don't mention them, they won't feel slighted. BT: I think one of the… I think one of the most enjoyable ones in the Club was Pearl Goodwin. EM: Yeah. She just kept everything going. EF: She lived right over here, on the side of the road. Her house was… BT: ...right next door here. My grandson owns it now. EF: Yeah, her grandson, Travis, lives in it now. BT: She just… I don't know, that was one of the ones. Evy's mother was always coming up with things to do. She was very crafty and handy. ...um. Ellen Millett was probably one of the harder-working people we had in the Club. She would always volunteer to do some of the hardest things. EM: Yeah. BT:...she, she, she roped me into doing more things than I ever thought I'd do. I can tell you, she had, she roped me into cleaning out the… the, back house. CR: Mmm... BT: Grrrr. ...one year. I said, okay, I'll help. I did. ...once. EM: Well, Rowena Palmer... EF: yeah...Rowena Palmer, Trudy Morse.... BT: Yup, yep....and they were… just all very active. EM: Yeah. BT: Kept things going along. CR: So what else did Rowena do besides hugs? BT: Oh, Rowena was just… she did a lot of things... EF: She did that thing that I told you about... CR: Oh, yeah, the eyeballs. EF: Halloween time with the… BT: Yeah, and she also got us tax-exempt from the Town, which we should have been a long time ago. We only did… we didn't pay that much in taxes, but it was more than we could afford sometimes. And, she said, there's no reason you would… should not…be eligible, and she looked into it, and she got us tax exempt, so that was good. Now we have a tax number, ID number now, that we can use. EF: Is this property taxes? BT: Yeah, property taxes... EF: yeah. ...we don't own any land. The Club sits on what it sits on. What you see that's mowed or kept up is probably someone else's land. EM: Really. BT: No...nobody's… we just had a little incident a few years ago where someone thought we owned more land, and we should be able to have off-street parking, and ah we got the code enforce… code enforcement officer involved, and…he thought we owned the land, and they were… they had it down that we owned 3 acres of land, and EM: I wish we did. BT: We wish we did, too. I said, well, I'm sorry, but we don't own it. I don't know where you're getting your information from. ...and he got looking into it, went through the old deeds, he said, indeed, he said, you don't own any land, do you? I said, no, we don't. We can't provide off-street parking. You can help us out some with it, but, you know, we've never had any issues with it. CR: No, and...and. it's well marked during the yard sale. BT: Yes, it is, yeah. The town steps up and helps us with that, the fire department puts up signs and helps with that, which we're very grateful for. EM: It's a very busy day on the Ridge. BT: Yes. EM: Many traffic jams....no accidents... BT: I don't think we've had really any--knock on wood--Evy don't say that... CR: Many months till the next one. BT: So, no, we… ah... CR: So, when you came back, did you fit right in again, and just went... EF: Yeah, yeah. Just an old neighbor. Brought up right up here, and ...right up the road. EM: Lived in that neighborhood all your life, haven't you? Except when... EF: Well, except those 17 years I was gone. EM: Yeah. BT: Yeah, I've lived here, all but one year....when...when the first year we were married, before we built this home, um, 'I lived downtown in an apartment and hated every minute of it. EM: 'course, they didn't have Pleasant Street people in the Club... BT: No, not back… not back along...I don't know exactly what year it was that we decided to incorporate those around the pond.. EM: I was thinking, maybe… I started...get in.. BT: ...you probably were...probably in the 70s. EM: And my mother, yeah. CR: But your mother wasn't in earlier? EM: No. CR: Oh. EM: No, no, we lived down too… CR: ...too far EM: ... too close to town. EF: Yeah. You were ... those other people. CR: So much for the friendly neighborhood. EM: True... after the fire, I remember Ellen and I…got a bunch of people together, and we had a big supper and that was.... BT: ... Raised quite a lot of money for us. EM: No, for the… BT: Yeah, for the… for the Frechettes. EM: Yeah... BT: ...for the Frechettes. But for us to raise that amount of money. EM. Yeah. EF: What year did that happen? Because I don't remember it. EM: It was '70… around '75. BT: John?? would know, but he's gone. But I don't… and he's not here to ask. EF: So… I missed out on a lot of stuff. EM: I gotta say, there were crowds right to the corner. EF: Yeah, I bet.. EF: Do you know… do you remember anything about when my Uncle Lucian was murdered out here? EM: Oh, yes. BT: Oh, yeah. Definitely that. Yeah. That was… that was a tragedy, on our neighborhood. It was terrible. Terrible, terrible. I got a… I worked downtown at the time, I had… at that time, and I had to get up to be down there to serve breakfast in the morning. I worked for a bed and… well, not a bed and breakfast, but a boarding home. And I had… so I'd get up around 4.30 to 5 in the morning, and earlier than that, I had gotten up, and I said to my husband, I said, it's funny, I said, Lucian's lights are on. I said, I can't understand why his lights are still on. I said, that's very unusual, and um I got ready for work, and I went down through about 5.30. I looked in his dooryard, but I didn't see anything, but he was down kind of behind the tree that's down there, so I didn't see him, and then my husband called to tell me what had happened. I was just… just… almost sick, and the night before I was gonna walk up...it was April, I was gonna walk up and see him, because I quite often did in the evening. I'd go up and sat on the porch with him, and he'd tell a few stories, and ... we'd just sit there and talk for a little while. It was after my kids had mostly grown up and so forth, and I went over to my folks, and… checked around over there, 'cause they were due home from Florida, and I checked around there, and I started to come up across the lawn over here, and it started to rain. And I thought, oh, well, I'll just go in the house, and I'm not going to walk up tonight, because I saw him sitting up there on the porch, and I came in the house. I know family have told me ever since, it's probably a good thing you did not walk up there. EM: Yeah. BT: Yeah. EF: It was 1986, wasn't it? BT: Yeah. Yeah. EF: 'Cause I was working at the bank. And I was, you know, at work and at the drive-up area...right in South Paris there. And, somebody came in, and they said, did you hear about Lucian? I said, no. And he just told me that he was shot and killed, you know. BT: Oh, it was a horrid thing anyway, because the police mishandled the whole thing. It was terrible. They didn't even know he'd been shot until later on in the day. They never checked. They thought he probably had a heart attack or something. CR: Bizarre. BT: It was… EF: Well, what the thing was about him was he had… his wallet was full of money, probably ones a lot, and, you know, not big bills, but he would sell hay and things like that, and, you know, he'd just stick it back in his wallet. So these…teenagers were the ones that did this to him. They came up and they, I guess, were gonna steal money off him or something. But they ended up… BT: Well, he wouldn't… he wouldn't give up his money easily, I can tell you that. EF: Yeah. BT: He worked too hard for it. EF: Yeah. BT: I'm sure he said over my body, or something like that, and unfortunately...they had a gun. EF: Yeah...and he lived… he lived alone, because my…his wife and my aunt had died, beforehand. I was… really, I was glad she wasn't there to know… to go through this. But then his daughter came, she always… Laska Jean, she always came down and, you know, helped him out during the day, his granddaughter, Laska Jean??. And, so, she's the one that found his body. And... Carol Rice: So… Yeah. BT: We've had some tragedies in the neighborhood over the years, no question, but everybody's pulled together and helped everybody out, and…we've all weathered the storms and.... EE: They had, they had court cases up to… was it Bangor? I think we had to go? BT: Yeah, it was. EF: I had to go. Yeah, I had to go to that, yeah. Because, you know, all I could do was remember seeing cars go by my house, you know, and stuff. That's all I could remember. So.. CR: So… But why was it in Bangor? BT: At the court in Bangor. They didn't want to hold it around here, they thought it would be too much prejudice. CR: Oh, yeah... BT: So they moved it to Bangor. EM: I didn't know that. CR: But nothing ever… no one was ever convicted? EF: Well, I think they were kind of convicted, but I don't think they ever stayed in prison very long. BT: They didn't, and no one really knows who did shoot him. EF: Yeah. BT: They lied back and forth, and… EF: Yeah. I don't know how many kids… was there, 4 or 5? BT: There was four of them, I think. Yeah. There was one girl. And he had sold some cows the day before, and he was… had quite a bit of… they figured he had 12 or 15 hundred in his wallet. My husband and I think we know how it came to be known. But…. It was handled very improperly. My husband refused to go and testify, because it was so… such a circus, and… It was CR: And everybody moved on. BT: And everybody moved on. We did. We moved on, and we've never forgotten. EM: And we never will forget. No. EF: Yeah. BT: ....but we've been… I think we're all very fortunate up here. We know if something happens, we can call on each other and…it's meant a lot, to me anyway, I'm sure it has… to everyone who belongs to the Club. I don't know… I don't know how the Club will keep going on, but I think it's going to. We've got some younger people in it now. EM: We've got some new people. BT: Yeah, that seem to be interested in it, and… CR: Why do you think there were never any other Clubs like yours? EM: There's never any other neighborhood like ours. BT: Oh, Oh...that's a good, good answer. EF: Are you talking about just Norway? Or what about Otisfield and down that area? EM: Do they have them? EF: I don't know, I'm just asking. EM: Oh, yeah, I don't know. No.. BT: I'm not sure. I don't remember. I think Paris Hill might have had the… but I don't think anything like our Club. EM: We are unique, I guess. I don't either... BT: I think we were on the unique side, I really do. The kind of...the Club it developed into, anyway. EM: Yeah. BT: From what it started as. I think just generations of people. There are quite a few generations in the Club. EM: Yeah. BT: At one point, the Thurston family up here had, I think, four generations coming to meetings. You know, it was…Y EM: yeah... Emelia, her mother, Lona, Lona, Bill. EM: We used to bring kids when they were little. BT: Yeah, we used to bring them, yeah. They used to come in. EM: No, it was… It was fun to see them. Yeah. BT: And a lot of our activities are around the kids .. CR: like...I mean, they didn't do the suppers or the dances, but what did they do? BT: Well, just the Halloween, you know, things like that that we used to do, and the suppers, they'd come to the suppers, and ... just be around, I don't know. Yeah. Our kids all played together. I know Emelia's and my kids played together for several years, and… CR: So they could play up there? BT: Yeah, they could play anywhere, and they used to have… apple fights out here, I know, at night. Don't you remember that? They'd pick up those green apples, and they'd be running up and down the road out here and telling you. Never… it never occurred to anyone back then that something might happen to your child in the neighborhood. They were safe. Yeah. I know my brothers... said about how they… they were just all over the neighborhood up here, everyone was friends. EF: Yeah, yeah... BT: Back when I was young, I used to… my mother… I'd go out in the morning, my mom worked most of the time, because she had to, and…Lil Thurston used to take care of me. Sherry used to stop me going by and give me something to drink and something to eat. I was… and I was probably 6 or 7 years old. I used to follow the hay truck around, up to… up to Ernest, and over here with Lucien, because they wouldn't let me on the hay truck, because I was too small… too small, and they were afraid something would happen to me, so they made me walk behind them, which I did all day long. Just because I like being with them; it was fun. I know my kids told at the time that my boys used to work for Lucian doing hay and so forth. They'd work for him in the winter some, helping them with hay, getting it down out on the upstairs, giving it to cows, and all that kind of stuff, and cleaning up. And they said they went down to… he owned big fields down to Oxford...huge fields. And they went down there one day, and they said there were a group of kids in the… from...the Elan School down there to Poland... there was a group of them in the road walking somewhere, and they said they remember they were standing up in the back of the hay truck on the way home on Route 26. Can you imagine that? That was back then. We never gave it a thought that something might happen to them, and the police didn't care. They were busy working, you know. EM: That was just the way we did it. EF: It was before seat belts... BT: ...before seatbelts, long before seatbelts. CR: And headrests BT: You know, they said who should slow down one little bit, those kids that were all from out of state, they thought somebody might slow down for them. They said he had that truck wound right up, and he said, we're going through, and off he went, right through...my kids got the biggest kick out of that. I remember telling that story. They said they all scattered, Mom. I said, oh, good. EM: Oh, really. BT: You would have heard about it if they hadn't. Yeah. Oh dear. CR: How are we doing? EM: We've been an hour. CR: Oh my goodness! BT: See what happens when you're having fun? CR: Exactly, that's the whole point. BT: Learning something new. CR: Yep, let me see. Hmm. So I think that's about all of my questions, but I just do like your stories. So.. EM> You got it all on tape, so… CR: I know. EM: Be careful what you put in there. CR: Well, you didn't say anything. Yeah. As I said, this is, you know, the… to flesh out the… just the bony facts. Yeah. You know, that, you know, you guys all had a lot of fun, and you helped each other. And you've got funny stories, which… EF: One time… CR: Good. EF: Her father was a State policeman. Okay, so one time, after we had a big rain or something, I think it was also the snow melting...that there was a flood right across 26 up in… heading towards West Paris. BT: Snows Falls... EF: So he got us girls and took us for a ride in his State trooper car, and showed it to us. There was a flood right across the road where people couldn't go through up there. So, that was something I remember. BT: I do. I remember singing on the radio with… Linda and I singing on the radio when your mother and father used to do the…the music thing on WKTQ way back years and years ago. EF: Yeah. BT: We, we kind of…talked him into letting us sing a little song. Yeah, he did. EF: Yeah...there's been music in my family forever, because it was Mellie Dunham, but also Nate Noble worked with Mellie Dunham, and after Mellie died, Nate Noble had his own band. And that's how my mother met my father, was through the band. EM: Oh, really? EF: Yeah, because Nate told her, he says, you know, I got this young man that's started playing the guitar and everything. He says, I think you should start coming and playing your accordion with us. So she did, and then they got married. Had two more kids. Her first husband died of...of tuberculosis way back when. So, our oldest sister is our half-sister, Mary. Mary, she lives over in Livermore. CR: So… One of the interviews that was done earlier this year is with two of Mellie Dunham's Great-granddaughters? I think? BT: Jackie...Lemieux.? EF: I don't know, because I didn't do it. EF: It was Linda and me. CR: Oh. Oh, you… EF: Linda Ellingwood and Emelia Fogg. CR: Aha, so you've been through this before? EF: Yeah. CR: Nice to meet you! It's a small world, but yes, no, that's… you know, Sue said she had a lot of fun doing that one. Yeah, yeah. BT: Yeah, well, that family used to be a lot of fun. BT: I used to spend half my days up there. EF: Yeah, we had that big house we lived in. BT: Yes, oh my lord. Oh, that house was… we had more clothes, old clothes upstairs we used to go up and dress up in. EF: Oh, yeah. BT: It was a three-story house with turrets on it, and… I have a picture here somewhere, but I can't remember. I don't… I can't find it right now, because I've got so many pictures here now, I can't… Oh, I just… EF: Yeah. BT: ...going through my brother's things and, my mom's things from… over accumulation, and I found quite a few pictures of Mellie and some local pictures that I donated to the Club; we're gonna put up a wall up there with all the pictures on it, and…fix it up. EM: Beth was saying you had some pictures. BT: Yeah. EM: ...that needs redoing anyway. BT: Yeah, it does. So, Jackie and Dave are coming up....and, which would be Mellie's… Mellie's… great-great-granddaughter, I would assume, or something like that. This goes back quite a few years. Ahhh. But, they're gonna help set it up and put up the pictures for us. CR: Yeah, it's good to capture the… the history and let the newcomers… BT: Well, we of it alive like to keep that part. We did...we did a thing here a while ago, we had, a questionnaire thing we brought up at the meeting. I still have it down in the other room. EM: I think we should do it again. BT: I think we should, too, 'cause we have quite a few new members. EM: Yes. BT: It just asked a lot of questions about the Club that people didn't know, and there were some of us who answered it. I'll be right back. I know right where it is. Oh, for one thing... EF: You probably have a picture of that house down there to the..…Historical Society. CR: Your old house? EF.: Yeah. CR: Yeah, probably do. Yeah. There's so much stuff at the Historical Society, and it's getting… EM: Where was it? Where was it? Right at the top of the hill? EF: No, it's right where the house is right now. My father took the top of it off. EM: Oh, okay. EF: Yeah....He decided he was gonna have a ranch-style house. So… So that's what he ended up getting. CR: That's called updating. EF: Yeah. And when he went to the bank, they wouldn't give him the money to do it, so he had to pay for it himself, because he was gonna take a… you know, for them to give a loan, he was gonna take part of the house away. So… I got a lot of pictures here, but… I know there's a picture of the house here somewhere. BT: A lot of the… a lot of the people in the neighborhood didn't even realize what he was doing, because he built the new roof inside the old house. EF: Yeah. BT: It was amazing. I mean… one day it was there, and the next, I think it was gone. EF: Yeah. It was like, wow.. BT: Yeah. EF: Where'd that go? BT: I know, I know. EF: I don't know if my mother knew what he was doing, but… probably would have drove her crazy. CR: Must have heard it, at least. EF: Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know where that picture is. I probably passed it already. BT: We did a little… what we did, we did a little bit of a history thing on the Club before, read what I have. I have a history here, a short history of it, and stuff, and then we had this little….paper that was made up, and it was just... What year and where was the big fire on the Ridge? ..and it was 1973 to 1975 when Ernest and Netty's is on here. And they, well.... another one was how many, and where were the old schoolroom school… one-room schoolhouses up… up here? We had 3 of them--which was amazing. Where was Mellie and Gram's house? ..on here...just different things that people don't know about, and then we had another one that tells a lot about the houses that were originally here, in the neighborhood, like starting down at Shepherd's, down by the Lake, and then coming up through, where Gordon Smith lived...the old Inn. And, that was a big Inn back then. George remembers going there for lunch. EM: Where Hazeltons...what was that? BT: That was, that was part of the Inn, I believe. EM: Yeah, that's what we decided...yeah. Yeah. CR: And, and so the… and people who were coming for the summer stayed there. BT: Yep, yep. And that, Oh, yeah, my... EF: It was a Sears and Roebuck house that came up on a train. You know, the parts And then my grandfather had it built. He hired a…carpenter, or contractor to build it. CR: Yeah, BT: Yeah. Wow. CR: ...it came with directions, as I… I've read about them, and… BT: It's… Yeah, yeah, I remember well. I've been all through it many times. Even upstairs. Way upstairs. EF: Yeah, we didn't… us girls didn't sleep upstairs. We slept right by where this window is here. There was room for 3 beds in there, and we all had a bedroom there. So…yeah. CR: re there any spooks in the house? EF: Well… There is on this one over here. Gram walks around once in a while, and we have heard it many times in that house. We…they thought there was a ghost in our house, and we are assuming it was our grandmother, because she died in childbirth, and she had 9 kids....that she left behind. So, it was probably… people thought I was crazy, but after my dad died and everything, I went over there, and I…I purposely talked to her. And I told her who I was, I was Lona's daughter, and that her kids were all deceased. They were all gone. And I said, so, you don't need to stay here any longer. You need to go, you know, and leave. So, that's all I did, you know, and I told people that were gonna buy it … that I did it, and I… Jason, I told him, too...then they went ahead and took the house, so… yep, just one of those things. It was nothing that ever scared me as a kid, but other people were.... BT: Well, I never… Gram never scared… I never give it much thought. I just know once in a while, we'd hear the creaking and the footsteps, and… EF: You're talking about Gram Dunham? EF: Yeah. Yeah. Because it was a new house. Yeah, it was her mother, too. That would be something that was her mother that was doing it here, and she was doing it over there. CR: The neighborhood always has stories. EF: Well, I've always thought that if there is such a thing as ghosts, I've always thought that it's people that have something here and they can't leave. That's what I always thought. BT: I agree with you. Yup. EM: Beth used to work at that coffee shop down on… Yeah.. BT: ...where the funeral home was... EM: Yes. And she said there was… ghosts in there. She talked with them. She talks to all… anybody. She'll go by a cemetery, and she'll talk… go to the cemetery, and… she talks more. EF: Who is this? EM: Beth. BT: Oh. Nothing wrong with that. CR: Just being friendly. BT: Exactly right. EM: Well, they're lonely, she said. I'd like somebody to say hi to 'em. BT: Well, I go over and talk to my mother and father, and… EM: I talk to John all the time... BT: ...you know I… EM: ....he don't talk back, but… BT: No, I know, I… but I feel better. EM: Yeah. CR: Well, anything else you want to share about the Club, or if you've got other… Recollections, you can always…write them down, and we'll do an addendum. EM: I think we did a pretty good job, actually. BT: No, I can't… I can't really think of much more, I… I'm sure I will. I started thinking last week that… EF: I think everybody got along very well together, all those years. BT: Yes, EF: Yeah... BT: I do. EF: Yeah. CR: Did you folks ever do quilting over there? EM: We did, we made a quilt the year I was… I don't know. 2003, was it? BT: I think so, yeah, 2003, when we had the 100th. EM: We did...Trudy, Rowena, and I....made patterns, and each gave a square to everybody to finish. And then we put it all together, and it hangs on the wall up there. CR: Ummm..but you didn't as, you know, sort of routinely set up a quilting frame or anything. I mean, it's just such a good space for that kind of thing... EM: No, CR: ...but…you were doing that at home. BT: They… the history here says many quilts were made, sewing done, and clothes collected for the needy. So they… I believe they used to do that back in the day, and I'm sure it was. EM: I remember my mother going somewhere. Now, I don't know where it was, but she used to go, and I think it was church, maybe. And they would be working on a quilt. CR: It would seem to be sort of a… you know, that would… certainly back in the… a long time ago, there were lots of scraps put into quilts, and much more fun doing it with other people. BT: Oh, yeah. EM: I was surprised. I gave them each pieces to put together. And that people could not sew....did not know how to sew. I was flabbergasted. So I showed 'em. That's not too tough. BT: Well… I think Mama did one of them. Yeah. CR: That's amazing how…those kinds of skills do go away. BT: I can't sew. My mother was an excellent sewer. She made dolls, she made teddy bears, she… to sell commercially and everything else, and I…I had Glenna Starbird in home economics in school, and she made me make this dress one day, and then we had a…a fashion show thing, and I was so embarrassed to put that dress on and go walk. Oh, I was… it was awful. I've never sewn since… EM: She wasn't the best teacher there was. BT: I don't know, it was something about… I don't know, I just… it was a purple, and it was… looked like a gunny sack to me. I don't know, it was horrible. I couldn't find enough to dress it up, so… that was the end of my sewing, really. I… I can… my grandmother taught me how to hand stitch. I can hand stitch real well. Yeah. But to get… My mother left me her sewing machine, she left me her new one that she had bought, and I had another one, and…one's gone. I still have two. And I went over to a friend of mine who makes quilts all the time, and so forth, and she was gonna show me how to do it, and…that was the end of that. That was one day, and I decided I didn't like that at all, so… EM: No, everybody doesn't BT: I just never found any joy in that. I don't know what it is. I...I wish I did, because I… EM: My sewing machine is buried. EF: My thing I used to do is knit and crochet, that's what I did. EM: Oh, I do that too, I like that. CR: I like to crochet, but… I'm a bad knitter BT: Oh, me too. I made mittens once, and the thumb was longer than the mitten. CR: Well... EM: It's a finger! BT: I'm just not inclined that way, I guess. I don't know what it is. I could cook the devil, but I… CR: Everybody finds their niche, yeah. Well, I want to thank you all very much. All: Well, thank you. Well, thank you, it's been fun. CR: We're kind of on a mission to…