This is the second part of the recordings with Esther Estes (EE), accompanied by her niece, Jean Cleveland Delamater (JD). Carol Rice (CR) is the NMHS interviewer. Information received after the interviews is indicated by a number in brackets, [#], and included at the end of the transcript of the recording. NOTE: The first sentence by CR was not captured on the tape, but was something like: I think last time we three chatted, you telling us about helping you aunt at house on Main Street... Tape begins: EE: ...belonged to a relative of the president of the Norway Savings Bank at the time, Fred, not Fred, it was Fred, yeah, Mr. Smith is the name. But anyway, my Aunt Alice, used to take care of Miss Smith, who lived there and she was, at the last of her living, Miss Smith was, bedridden, and, so, my aunt used to have me come in and do a little bit of housework for them, as far as, you know, like, getting down and, and dusting floors up and stuff, because Aunt Alice couldn't do it anymore like that. And and it was...hardwood floors with Oriental rugs on the floor, like that. So we went around the edge of that, and she had a grand piano in there, which I thought was lovely. And it was an interesting little...house, really. Her bedroom was downstairs, but apparently there were bedrooms upstairs, maybe a couple, I don't know, I never went upstairs. But there was a parlor. When you went in the front door from Main Street, if you went to the left it was a, a regular living room with the grand piano there, and then the dining room, and on the right was her bedroom, and further out was the kitchen, which was big, and it was old-fashioned, very big kitchen--had the black sink and whatever--and if you went When you went in the front door, on the right was the parlor. And nobody goes in there, only her special friends, when she had come to visit, they went into the parlor and had their visit. That's where they visited, because that was, that was a special room with special furniture and everything. I remember seeing it, it was old-fashioned. Yep. So and then they took and moved it up the street, and I haven't been in there since, but oh, then I remember.. CR: the Historical Society. EE: Yep, and off the kitchen, where the kitchen was, off the kitchen, which would look, down now, where the Fire Station is when it was when it was on Main Street there, was a small porch, and my aunt, had, clotheslines out there to hang clothes out and stuff. And, so, you know, that was an old it was not, you know, it was an old-fashioned, old-fashioned house. It looks they haven't done anything, as far as the outside of it is concerned, so it doesn't look any different than I what I remember. JD: And which place is it again? Tell me again where it is where it was, I mean, where it is, the one you're talking about. EE: Yeah, it's up on across from the Advertiser Office now. JD: But before, I didn't catch where it was. EE: Well, where it was, you know where well... it's a shop that I don't even know what they got in there...some things probably young people like to go to. That used to be Fletcher's Candy Store. JD: Okay, that's what I need to know. Yeah. JD: I remember that. EE: And so, right there, across the street, was right on that corner... JD: Okay. EE: ...was where that house was. Yeah. JD: Was that then turned out to be Frank Bjorkland's Law law office there, that one? EE: Huh, I don't JD: Dad used to. Dad used to work on that one occasionally, up at his house. Right next to 290 Main Street. That house, would that be EE: Hmmm... JD: Okay, well, maybe not. EE: I don't know, I know that Frank Bjorkland's had his office across from the post office. JD: Yes, you yeah, you did. EE: Right. Yeah. I think you did, yeah. CR: Yeah, so this must have been on the corner where, the Lair is, or Liar, the video and gaming thing. JD: Yeah, that's right. That's the right next to the post office. Yes. Well, wait, the house. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. EE: Huh. CR: Wow. Main Street's changed a lot. JD: Yes, it has. A lot. EE: Too much, because, you know, I I need a shoe store, and I need ...well yes. You could go in and buy just 2 or 3 nails. You didn't have to buy a whole box. Hey, all I need really, Mr. Longley is just 2 or 3 nails. Yeah. Yeah, because I'm fixing a birdhouse. I don't want any box of 'em. That's all you have to buy now, is a whole box of 'em. JD: That's true. EE: Yep. Yep, you do, it's not funny. So, you know, and Ben Franklin, now, I mean, even one thing is too bad that, that was really old-fashioned on that was that little mobile restaurant trailer that used to be there. It was a restaurant, and I think the manager or the one that did most of the cooking, her last name was Dustin, because she had a son that went to grammar school with me. And, eventually they moved away, so I don't know whatever happened to Glenn Dustin after that. I've got a great picture of her, him, when he was when they had taken photos... JD: at school... EE: He was still here. And, but, my, sister Betty had taken me in there for lunch before, which was very nice, and they didn't, like, have any tables or anything. It was a stools JD: ...and a counter EE: ...because it's so small in there. And, but they were very busy. They they gave lunches, and and I don't think they were...had long hours at, you know, in the evening, or anything like that, yeah. But they were always busy, and I remember Betty and I going in there one Saturday when we was out shopping around at Newberry's, and JD: all the fun places. EE: ...whatever was there at the time, and but No. But the dear old Opera House, they're trying to get that together, and you know, I'd love to see that going again, because that was a wonderful place. The teachers were very fortunate, because they had a nice place to to have their musicals on for their grand you know, for all those children. JD: Yes. EE: And and it was good, because the kids, they wouldn't, it would be the first time they ever got to be on a stage. JD: Yes. EE: You know, like that. And, and I was I was on that stage quite a few times myself with, I took lessons--dance lessons. CR CR: Oh! EE: So, that's that's where they were, and then, 8th grade graduation did there. 56, 1956, high school graduation took there. The, graduation ball was there. So, you know, it was it was very used, and they used to have old vaudeville shows, and I had seen a few of them, and they were put together by people in the area, too, that were in it. They were good. They they showed their stuff by dancing and singing and all of this, and it was it was pretty good. I went to a couple of them before, and and then, like I was showing Carol, like, this is who I would have seen, Ken McKenzie. JD: Oh. EE: That was him, back in 47. I was 10 years old, the first time I'd ever seen him. Betty, his wife was Betty Cody. She's her picture's in there, and she was and he had a whole band. JD: Oh, yes. EE: And then there was Betty Grubin, and she was like Minnie Pearl type of deal. Oh, she was funny. JD: Yeah, I don't remember that one, but I remember I remember Mum and Dad going to the vaudeville shows, and, Uncle Faunce Pendexter, and Muriel, would come up and go with them. EE: Oh, that one, yeah. But they used to have Hawkshaw Hawkins, and he used to come in a very big blue Cadillac, and on the front of his car, was two big Western horns. JD: Oh, like a steer's. EE: Yeah, hanging out. Very big, too, yeah. And he always was dressed very fancy, and usually in blue and white. you know. It's like he was like matching his car, I guess, but he would he would be dressed in this blue and white, western outfit, and he was an extremely tall guy, and he was a very good singer. And the other one that had been there that I had seen was called 'Tony and Juanita' and I don't remember what their last names were, I just remember who they looked like, and they used to sing on the radio every day at noontime, because my father, when he'd come home from to have lunch...from work, from the shoe shop, he would make sure that radio was on, because he wanted to hear them... JD: Tony and Juanita. EE: Yep. They had this little western show for a half hour, I think, on there. CR: Wow. EE: So, you know, but they happened...a lot of things, wonderful things have happened at the Opera House ...perhaps, over the years, and when I heard that they're trying to do what they can do to get it revived again, that would be wonderful, I think. JD: Yeah, they're now slow, slow-paced, but it's it's persistent. EE: Yeah. They're trying, yeah. I'm too old, and I won't be able to dance across that floor again, but anyway JD: Oh, I don't give I don't say don't say that. EE: But I like to think about it how everybody else can, and you know, but I and another thing was they had wonderful plays. I went to a few of those with Betty, and they've had a few comedy ones, but one that I liked the best was a detective one. JD: Oh. EE:... because I still like detectives, and it was very, very good, and and what was good about it, too, because it was it was so real. Somehow, on that stage, one person got, shot, or something, and they went down. They went right down the down to what were they probably in the cellar, or wherever they landed, I don't know, I never saw them again. JD: Well, maybe they did Dead and gone! EE: Yeah, so I and that, oh, that really made everybody jump. They weren't looking for that, yeah, and so it was, you know and then, I was in a high school play, just a little short, short area of it. But it was very, unusual, because it was the seniors at the time that were putting this play on, and they never in their life ever asked a freshman to join their play, and I don't know who who was one of the seniors that maybe knew who I was, or something, I don't know, that maybe they just, you know, felt sorry for me. JD: No, no. EE: I think we better let her play in the play. I think she needs it. So so, that was fun, and the best part of it is, I got a new outfit to wear for school. It came from Browns! JD: Wow, you were fancy! EE: So, I mean, it, it, that was a, a play that was funny, and then, we had another play that, one of the classmates was in, and it was, like Roger Rabbit. JD: And, yeah. EE:...ayah...and but, you know, so there's so many things that could happen there if they just get with it, and, you know, but the thing of it is, it's a lot of money. JD: That's true. They just want to pull it back together. EE: You know, they're trying to get it to do what they can, that's all. JD: So that must be where the, you know, the OOMPA.. EE: ..oh, yes. JD: That must be the original type of thing that evolved into OOMPA. I imagine. Yeah, EE: Yeah. But the thing is, you need, you know, they're gonna have to have some outside help. They can't just, you know, it's not this area that's going to be able to do everything, not the way things are. But, no, so it's a I'd like to see, you know, I'd like to know that was going to happen again, you know. JD: That would be nice. EE: I could always look down from heaven and say, hey, good, my wish came true! JD: Dance on! Dance on, people! EE: Bobby called the knife! Bobby always is a good one, and, you know, things like that, so Oh, dear, I don't know. It's nice to think about stuff like that. But yeah, Main Street has, you know, you've got your you've got your little shops out there, but not like not the old-fashioned kind of things that we did, you know. JD: Did you.... EE: I always liked, the Blue Store, you know, I mean, yeah. And, Arthur was always nice and very helpful, and even when, even when, my late husband and I lived in Aroostook County, and George had well, the kids were not feeling well, so we couldn't come down to Norway at the time, and I gave Arthur a call to find out what I was looking for, for my husband, for sport coats. And he knew, he had everything information down, too, because George used to buy his stuff there. And he said, I can send those up. No, I told him what I was looking for, for the color, and everything. And can you imagine? He did that. JD: That was nice. EE: You know, I mean, this, you know, you just, you can't do that anymore. That don't happen anymore. JD: Stores all worked together then. EE: That was one-on-one type of thing. Yes. And you know, a lot of it is like a lot of it is like banks do, too. That, you know, I had worked at the old Norway National Bank many, many years ago, and, upstairs in the, bookkeeping department with, Gilda Flood and then she passed away about a year or so ago. Well, Gilda did. She was married to a Heikkinen boy, and there's no Doris Thurston, she was very smart up there. I mean, if you wanted to know something, you ask her, too. And Phemie Russell, she was wonderful. She brought food in all the time. JD: That would be good. EE: But, you know, and so and that and that bank was what I thought was really good with people, one-on-one type of people, you know? And you're lucky if you can find that now. JD: It's a new world. EE: Really. You you can't. It's a big change...of everybody, all the time. JD: Yes. EE: I don't The ones that work there, they don't keep them like they used to, it's Whatever. I think money, maybe, maybe it has to do with the money. CR: Did you ever get special dresses at that dress shop? EE: What was that? That dress shop that operated where? CR: ...on Main Street. JD: Okay, let's see, was it Browns? Browns? Yes. EE: Yeah, yeah, they Now, that dress shop was was very, very wonderful. People could go in and even buy on time, if they needed to. That's how good she was. Helen Sanborn. Yeah. She was wonderful. And she had a little dressing room, so you've got you have privacy if you want to try some stuff on, come out and look in the mirror, and she will tell you, too, now that color isn't a go for you, you know, whatever. And I used to buy quite a lot of stuff there when I was working, and but she, she was yeah, that was a nice little dress shop. And then the other one, too, that was good on Main Street was the little hat shop. That was between Hutchins, that's right. Hutchins store was here, and then right on this... JD: Oh yeah. EE: ...small area right here, a door, and the room was very small, but she, sold hats and, pocketbooks...and, gloves--dress gloves--scarves, things like that. And she lived on Deering Street. And I don't know whether they so whether they have torn her house down or not, but they were thinking about it, and I thought, that's too bad, because that house must be extremely old, you know, almost how they like to keep historical stuff. JD: Yes. EE: And, her house was just before, if you was on Main Street and you were going to go down Deering Street, it would had would be probably a couple of houses before where Dr. Dixon lived. JD: Okay. EE: And, I know they were talking about, a year or so ago, a man who had bought an apartment house Had talked about tearing that house down. Wanted to buy it and tear it down, so that he'd have parking. JD: Okay. EE: ...And so I haven't been on Deering Street lately to to know whether that house is still there or not, but anyway This lady, was the one that lived in that house, that ran this little small shop. And eventually, Mrs., oh, let's see her husband was the lawyer in town. June...Margolin. Yeah, Margo's. She went in there and had a nice little shop in there. Clothes and bathing suits and everything. She sold everything, yeah. And she was very pleasant. I always liked her. Yeah, she was very pleasant. JD: Do you remember the lady that was ...dressed all in black? ...that walked up and down Main Street a lot, and she lived where right next to Jackson's Market, in that house that's gone now, that was, a boarding a boarding house, right on the corner of...and across from the Advertiser. She used to sit out on the porch all the time. EE: Yeah, that big ol' house? Yes. JD: Because she was a milliner in New York...for hats, and she used to wear one all the time and come into Ashton's. EE: Oh. JD: And I wondered if she had any affiliation or worked with that hat, because I didn't know there was a hat shop there. EE: No, the one that ran the hat shop, she never had anybody working with her in there. JD: Okay. EE: She was always on her own, and she was a little short lady. And I was trying to think, it seemed like her last name was Hutchins, or Hutchinson. Her last name, began, I think, began with H, and I remember her, I remember what she looked like and everything, and she, she was very, very pleasant. She was the only one I ever saw in there. JD: Yeah, that makes sense, yeah. EE: And, but, you know. I know I know my late husband I know my late husband used to go to Longley's a lot, and my and my husband, Herb, really misses Longley's alot, because he when he was working on something, he could always find something there. And if they didn't have something downstairs they'd go upstairs. Mr. Longley, or whoever was there, would go upstairs and, and knew exactly what anybody was after, and they'd bring it down, yeah. So, no, it's too bad, all those places, but you, you know, you they don't have they don't have any more for ... for a shoe store, or a men's store, or anything now, you have to you have to go out of the area if you want something. JD: That's true. CR: Where, where else did you work? Where else did you work besides the National Bank? EE: Oh, well, I worked I worked there, and when I when I first started to work in a store, I was 13, and I worked for Davis Market. And, just, clean keep the shelves cleaned up, make sure the cereal was out on the shelves where they belonged, and keep everything dusted. And then, as time went on, he wanted me to wait on people. And so, that happened when I was about, probably 15. And I worked there part-time until I was 18, part-time. And then, one summer, I worked for Dennis Dulllea at the shoe shop, packing shoes, which was my sister Betty's job, too. That was what she did, was packing shoes. And I did that for that summer. Because the next that was when I was a junior, and going into senior high school, and, the next the next year, we were going to be going on the Washington trip, so I thought that I really had to have a, you know, a job that was, like, every day, and, you know, like, full-time. And so that happened to come up, and he just had told my sister, well, have her come in and see me, and I'll show her the different things that everybody does in there. And, so that's what I ended out doing. And two sisters were working, doing the same thing, and, helped me, show me how to do the job and everything. They were very, very nice, and so, you know, that so that that went good, and Dennis wanted to know if I would come back the next year, and I said, no, I don't think so, because I had the chance to go into the bank, so but the first bank I went into was over to South Paris. I worked there at the Casco Bank. And one, one evening around 6 o'clock at night, the telephone rings, and it's, it's Mr. Smith from Norway Savings Bank, the president. Knew my family, knew me and called up and knew I was working over to South Paris at the at the bank there, and he said: Why don't you come and work in our bookkeeping department? And you won't even have to drive a car. And so, I thought, hey, that worked good, I guess I will. And the money was just probably, probably a couple of dollars more than what I was earning, but that meant a lot to me. And I thought, gee, I won't have to bother to fight the business in the wintertime, like that. And I was using a car that had belonged to my brother John, who had gone to the service, and he left the car, in my father's garage, for my father to use, and me to use. Boy, he was trusting. So And so anyway, because I used to drive fast. So anyway, I did. I took that job. [JD: as EE was backing her rocking chair into the couch: You're hitting the thing back there, it's making a little noise. Let's move her up a little thing. Yep, so we gotta go right. Nope, that's all right. That's fine.] So anyway, that's that was, the that was the next, job I had, had in the bank was, Norway National Bank. And, it was a, and there was a lot of nice people that worked there at the time. They, you know, and I knew a lot of them already, anyway, because they lived right in the area. JD: Right. So, well, it saved you saved you gas money. EE: Yeah, it sure did. Yes, it did. Yeah, yeah. And having to, you know, go in bad weather at times, even over to... it would have been and, I mean, you you had to make sure you found a place to park somewhere that you could leave the car for that day, right on Main Street. I mean, they didn't have a parking place or anything. JD: Oh, that makes sense. EE: So that, that was that one. And then, one time, it was in the winter, and it was after Susan was born, Newberry's--the one that was running Newberry's--called me one day and said, we need some help at Newberry's for for winter, and two, maybe a week and a half into January, because they do their inventory and stuff. JD: That's right. EE: So she said. Would would it, be able to work for you to come in and work at that time for us, and I mean, I thought, gee, that would help me out, coming Christmas time. JD: That's right. Yeah. EE: So I did that. I did that for about ... almost a month, I think it was, yeah, and I never took care of CR: And you were still at the bank? So you were no longer at the bank? EE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so that was that was that. Then, when my late husband and I moved to Aroostook County, and he taught school up there. I worked with serving the kids their lunch on that line they go through, up to Pine Street School, up in Presque Isle. And I could see the school from where we lived. JD: Oh, wow. EE: Yeah, so they made it good. I mean, the kids never had to go on a school bus. They, you know... they could walk to school. And, so, and so they get a kick out of it, because they'd be going through the line and there I was serving them some stuff, yeah. JD: That was good. EE: So I had, I had worked there, but I, you know, I've worked at different, you know, different things, and when growing up, before I was old enough to really work out like that, I used to babysit. You know, and I babysat for the minister and his wife, who lived next door to my folks' house. And, in fact JD: Who was that? EE: He just passed away, too. JD: Who was that? EE: And that would have been, Sallies. Robert Sallies. JD: Yes. Yeah. EE: And then all they had and all they had was the one girl, and I think that's all they ever had was that one girl. That's right. And her name was Esther Elizabeth, but they called her Betsy. Betsy Sallies. JD: Awesome! EE: And I took care of her when she was around, oh, 2 2 and 3 years old, probably, like that, yeah. And, so they, yeah.., they came over one day and asked if I would be able to babysit for them. They were looking for somebody, and they had asked around who... apparently who we were, and so forth. They didn't know us that well. And so that was pretty good, just walk across the road, and there you are! Yeah, it's just a cute little kid, and yeah. So, I used to, used to babysit for them. CR: You mentioned EE: And I used to babysit this little girl. [Indicating JD] Yeah. Well : Yes, and her brother, Jimmy... used to babysit for him before Jean was ever came into the world, and and was Jimmy when he went to bed....you he didn't want to stay, he didn't want to stay in his crib. He wanted to be up, he wanted to get up. So, what you'd have to do...you'd have to crawl on the floor, very quietly, into his bedroom, and take hold of the, the leg of the crib. JD: Yeah. EE: ...and rock it back and forth to see if you could get him to go to sleep, because if you they can't you had to do it in the dark. He can't see you, because if he saw you, he wanted you to take him up. He wanted to get up... JD: Yup. So I must have I must have been the angel in the family, right? EE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, an angel who would come and bring me 20 books. They wanted me to read books to them before they went to bed, and I was told about what time they would go to to go to bed, you know, around what time, and But they she and Jimmy would start bringing these books to me. And, you know, and it started out we was gonna have 4 books. Well, that didn't work. I'm like this--I said, don't tell your mother; don't tell your mother what time! JD: Do you remember when he pulled the, maybe you weren't babysitting him then, but he pulled all the, picked all the wallpaper off the wall by his bed. EE: No, no. JD: He had seen Mum and Dad taking off the former wallpaper, because they were going to redo it. And he thought, well, I guess that's what you do, so they must have had the bed up close to the wall, and they came in the next morning, and he'd been picking all the anything that he could find loose that hadn't dried on, off the wall. He was the angel in the family. EE: And then, a girlfriend and I used to babysit for Tom Ryan and his wife when his kids were growing up, the boys. Oh, yeah, when they were they lived on Main Street at the time, renting. I don't know if they owned the house, although they were renting it. And, but, and that was in the area where Norway Savings Bank is. There was a lot of houses all through there when I went to school and, you know, and...remember all of them. There were a lot of houses in that area, the whole length of Main Street there. JD: Were they more, rentals, like apartment buildings, or were they home homes? EE: It was a house. Yeah. Yeah, it was a house. And I don't know if they if they owned it before they moved up by the lake or not. And, but... yeah, we had babysat for them before, so CR: You mentioned that you were that you took the trip to Washington. EE: Yeah, we took the trip to Washington. CR: See, we didn't do that. So, yeah, tell us about that.... JD: ...because we never got that kind of trip for high school. EE: Yeah, about 1956, yeah, we went to the Washington trip. And I remember, Ira Allen, and he has passed away now. But he had to have his guitar with him, and he sang, and he went to the back of the bus with his guitar, and yeah, and, would, singing all the time. We was all, you know, of us all singing. And, and he ended up doing well in his life. JD: Yes, he did. EE:... anyway, because, yeah, he got, he, he got popular and gave shows around, Ira did, yeah. And, but we, you know, we that trip went very well. There was about I don't there might have been a few out of the class that may not have, have gone. I don't I think they could have gone if they wanted to, and and they they didn't for whatever .. ever..reason. Maybe maybe they had a job, and they have to be working, you know, because of family back then, you know. I mean, you really had to work to earn that money to go. And...yeah, so... CR: What did you think of what did you think of Washington? EE: Well, at that time, you could go out. In fact, one evening, Priscilla Nevers, who has passed away, she was my roommate, and so was Joanna Frechette. And this, last, the last reunion, a year ago, was the last class reunion we had...a year ago this past summer. And Joanna came to the reunion, and it's the first time I had seen her since 1956. And she didn't look any different. It made me mad! I said, Joanna! I said...what happened to your lines? Where are they? And I mean, no, she didn't look a bit different... at all since the time we graduated from high school. I knew her right away. I knew her, because then, yeah, that was Joanna. And so we had a good time to visit, and got to laughing about stuff. She was a very, very nice girl, very smart in school, too, Joanne was. And, I can't remember if that I know at one time, she lived in Oklahoma for quite a while, and at one time, I think, she even taught on, on a Indian reservation out that way. And, but, since then, she has moved, to other places, and so I don't remember this last time, but, she has a family, and so forth, and, so, but that, that was wonderful to see her. But Washington, D.C, when we were out there... It sounds like you're not safe anymore. And probably maybe Trump isn't helping anything by having all that force there, you know? JD: Yeah. EE: But anyway, I remember Priscilla Nevers, was a very quiet girl, and very, very, smart too. Very nice person. I always liked her very much. And she was our, our roommate. And Joanna had something going on herself that night with some of the other girls, and so I said, well, Priscilla, why don't you and I go out and just take a short walk, and I said, we won't go too far, you don't have to worry not to get back to the hotel. And, you know, and we felt safe, and we were able to feel that we could be safe, but apparently everything is altogether different now. You don't want to be going out walking. You know, a lot of that. I don't know, but back then, it wasn't, it wasn't noisy. I mean, when we were out, it wasn't like any noisy people hanging around or anything like that. But we crossed the street, And started going up the sidewalk. And pretty soon, this door opens up, and there's a bar, and a guy comes out,.. he's drunk. And he, yeah, and he stumbles down the stairs. He doesn't fall, but he stumbles down the stairs, and we were right there when he did it. And said, right, girls, why don't you come in? ....well, come in and have a little dance, have a little drink... And I said, you get out of here. I said, you get out of here, you take those stairs and go right back up there and shut that door! ... and you know he did. JD: He did? EE: He just he was so drunk. He did exactly what you told him to do. Oh, God. Well, Priscilla was she didn't do nothing. She was scared to death, you know. But she calmed down after we got rid of him, and so we came for our little walk, and we didn't stop anywhere. We just decided we was gonna get out for a minute. And we got back, we were fine, but when I've thought about it, the way things are now, you can't you couldn't do that. JD: It's a whole different world right now... EE: Yeah... JD: ... whole different Whole different world. EE: Yeah, it's, it's all together a different type of life now, so that, you know JD: Yes, that's true. EE: And no one ever wants to be alone, either. I mean, you know, I feel I feel like, if it is pitch dark out, in this area, and I was gonna go from where I live up to as far as to Pleasant Street or Summer Street, you know? I've seen the time you could you could go by yourself and feel wonderful. Well, one time, Susan was home And we took we decided we was gonna take a walk out. And it was just she and I, and we were by the Park, the old Park by the ...by the Norway Savings Bank, and there was a bunch of rowdies in there. They were sitting on the bench, and they, you know, and we didn't pay any attention to them, but we saw they were there. The minute we hit that area, a couple of guys got up. And right behind us. And, they were saying something. And her Susan turned around, and she said: Do get out of here--Do you want a knuckle sandwich now, or later? CR: Sounds like you! JD: She takes after you, Aunt Esther! EE: You know, I don't want her to take care of it. Yeah, she said: Do you want a knuckle sandwich now, or later? And I mean, I mean, they, I mean, she was ugly to them. And I'm telling you, they just didn't think they laid off. They take...they were right they were pretty pretty close behind us, too. JD: Yeah, that's not a good feeling at all. EE: Yeah, but I mean, I think [JD noting that the chair is hitting the couch again. Here we go again. Just creaking again. Yeah. CR: Move way forward. JD: I think you're gonna have to Okay, you walk ahead, and I'm gonna move the chair a bit. Okay, I'm gonna start pulling this chair, okay.] EE: And it's awful, because one of the best chairs I've ever had since I was a kid is a rocking chair, and you know, the one that always remembered that was Harlan Morse. He said he remembered, before he and Helen were married, and they came up to take her out, that's where I was... JD: ..in the rocking chair? EE ..rocking chair, in the kitchen. Yeah, and, and he always remembered that. And so I always have a rocking chair at home, just like I've got that old antique one in the other, the other room that's supposed to go to Susan. And Bruce has got one, you know, just like it. Oh yeah, their great-grandmother gave me two rocking chairs, and they were oak, they were oak rocking chairs, and I redid them over. And they didn't have to have a lot of work, because she had taken good care of them anyway, but I did redo them and everything, and I made sure Bruce got his, and I've still got the one that belongs to Susan. And so, and so..I thought that, you know, that's pretty good. JD: Yes, it is. They will love that. EE: So, she felt that nobody else in the family would care about it, one way or the other, and so JD: That was nice, that was good. EE: Yeah. JD: ... that's nice. EE: Yeah. So but, I don't know, it's... JD: ...any more questions? EE: Well, I know ..... One sad thing I feel right now, when I think about it, when I think about my classmates, I haven't seen very many this year, at all. Usually I do, because they usually come home to Norway, from out of state, in the summer. And, they either stay with someone, or they have a cottage or a summer place they go to. But that didn't happen this year. It was kind of sad, because I had to go to graveside services, instead. JD: That's hard. EE: And, and I mean, these were people that were really, really friendly with me, too, so it really was very, very hard. And, to go through that. But, I, yeah, I so I haven't the ones that used to come home are not well enough now, anyway. And, and once in a while, we kept in touch. They would ask they weren't going to be coming home, so they would ask about, Norway and Main Street, and is that there, and is this there, and so forth, you know... JD: That's true. EE: I think one place people probably miss is Goodwin's Dairy. JD: I do. Yeah. EE: Yeah, I liked that place. We, yeah, I went every at least once every week, I would be in there. It was either for ice cream or for something. And, yeah, and and a lot of the classmates were waitresses there. Yeah. JD: Yeah. EE: Yeah. Janice Goodwin Morton, she was one that worked there for years. And, but, yeah, so that, that was a, a very, very sad thing when that went. And, Archie, really, he, you know, he had a tight ship there. He really made sure that whoever was there was doing what they were supposed to be doing, too, you know. One time, I remember...I was over there one evening and looked across the bar.... and there's Alfred Brown yeah, Alfred Brown was sitting there beside, one of the Snow boys from South Paris. And I think they were on a break from work--the Snow boys were, and anyway they were sitting beside Alfred, and Alfred, the Snow boy was having his lunch. So Alfred was and I remember Janice was working that night, too. And, she went over to wait on Alfred, and he said he wanted some French fries. So, he got his French fries, and every time he turned his head, the Snow boy would help him. What, what was going on? He didn't need all of them. So that was kind of funny. And then he said, and I remember, and he said to Janice: Janice, remember when you borrowed my car? And Janice Janice said, Alfred, I never borrowed your car. She was embarrassed. Yeah, so, you know, those were the those were the funny, funny days. JD: Well, there were they were all we always had a lot of characters... EE: Yeah, yes. JD: ...in the town. EE: Well, we had one. We had one that lived up the street from Summer Street, and lived up the street on Whitman Street, and right up, right on the corner, the house is still there. I don't know who's living there now, but the house is still there that the family lived in. And, he drank way too much. And, so he'd get kicked out by his wife. She wan't she wasn't gonna have him stay there at home, not like that. So, he'd end up out, going over to where the station used to come in by, you know, the old Farmers, Norway Farmers Market there. And the, the, the, some of the cars... some of the box cars, were there all evening. And the door was opened, and that's where he got in and get his nap right there. And, during the war, they would shut the lights off certain times, and there would be a siren might go, or something, and everybody had to have all their lights off during the war. And my father was one of them they asked to go out to check around. And that used to make my mother kind of nervous, in a way, because it was dark. There was no lights out, even outside. No lights on in the house, no lights outside. So it was that. So he had to have a flashlight with him. And she didn't like it because he didn't take a Billy club with him. He was supposed to take a Billy club,... he wouldn't. My father would, you know and he wouldn't take one. He figured if there was somebody, he could handle it, you know, so JD: Yeah... big guy. EE: So and and he would always, always go over there where the box car was, and that was that guy in there. [1] JD: Oh, my he was naughty most of the nights. EE: ... so Yeah, he was there asleep, and he left him alone. He didn't, he didn't get him up, he didn't make him move, he wasn't doing anything, he was in there sleeping on some hay or something, I guess. But, you know, different things. Kids nowadays don't have any idea. JD: No, we don't, do we? EE: Really, they don't. No, they don't, you know, like mine, they, you know, you tell them something as .. You know, really? You know? Yeah, that used to happen, yeah. But... CR: What do you remember about Barjo's? JD: What do you remember about Barjo's? Restaurant? Barjo's? EE: Barjo's. Barjo's. Oh, Barjo's? Yeah. Oh, yeah, Barjo's? Well, she Barjo was wonderful, I thought. She made sure that anyone that didn't have a meal had one. She gave a lot of free meals away. And, she, in fact.... it was back when my father had a lot of trouble with his back. Something happened to his back, and Dr. Tyler, who used to live... his daughter went to school with me, Mildred, and she is no longer here. But we were in grammar school together, and they lived on Marston Street, near George Andrew's house. JD. Okay. And, he used to go to anybody's house to, do his chiropractor if he had to. If they couldn't go my father, he couldn't hardly get out of bed, so he couldn't go. So he used to come to our come to the house to give my father the treatment on his back, Dr. Tyler. And, that was ... you know, back then, doctors came to your house. Dr. Nelson came to the house, when I had measles and and chicken pox and all of this, because I was very, very sick with that. John never was, but I was very, very ill every time I had something like that. And, I would have such a high temperature that it was like, hallucinating. JD: Oh, wow. EE: ...Yeah, you know, something that I thought JD: That's serious. EE: And, because I know I came home from school one day, and I was coming down with old-fashioned measles. I was sitting in the chair in the kitchen, and all of a sudden, it scared my mother. I said I started crying, and I said, my hands are getting bigger. And it was like, yeah. And my mother came over and checked me. I was just burning up. And she checked me over and could see that I was getting all broken out with something, so she called Dr. Nelson. I had old-fashioned measles. JD: Wow. EE: And, very, very ill. It went on for more than a couple of weeks and more. And, but John had 'em, and he could get out and play in all ... he did, you know, nothing bothered him, yeah. JD: Good olde John. EE: He was all right, but I was I was sick in bed. But I... Barjo's Restaurant, she Was a very, very hard worker. And, she used to make sure that everybody was doing their job, too. She had waitresses, very, very good waitresses, and they were very they worked very hard, too. And, Stoney, her husband, he used to work out in the kitchen, too, and he used to make the salads and stuff, the green salads and whatever, you know, and it would be bowl like this, you know, great big bowl, and he he used to do a lot of the cooking and stuff, as well as her. And, they, you know, and it was always neat in there, and it was always busy. The ones from the mill and everything used to go there for their breaks. JD: Yep. EE: And, my late husband worked for her washing windows in the restaurant, outside the restaurant, making sure everything is swept up outside, near the restaurant, the sidewalk. They owned Hotel Stone. And George worked there for them, selling, tickets to the bus. The bus used to park out front, and then people would come in and stay at the hotel, and he took care of that, gave them the key, and the money, whatever, receipts. JD: Yup. EE: And he did that while he was in high school and college. And, that's how it happened. That's that's how he really.... got his college paid for by that, beside other jobs he did, too. He had about 3 jobs in 1 year, so that when he got out of college, there was there was, nothing to pay. He had everything was paid for. JD: Wow. EE: Yeah, because he had paid he'd worked so hard. And...But, Hotel Stone....I took dance lessons there. They had nobody in the area that gave dance lessons...they had to come up from Lewiston. And the first one I had unbelievable. She was a very nice dancer... very good ballet dancer. She used to, do her act on the stage, when after we had our thing to do. Then she used to do her act, and her name was Miss Cooper. And she was at least this big. And she was big and round. So you can remember what she looked like in a tutu. Yeah, and ballets slippers! Ballets just on, and jump around We took we took lessons from her. There was about, oh, probably 12 of us in all, between Norway and South Paris people that came there. And it was downstairs, at Hotel Stone. On the right of the porch, there was a--I have a picture of the old hotel, of course--a big bay window there, and a big bay window on the other side, before you went into the hotel itself. And on the right side, that big room, there was where lessons were made, and, and... And when the fortune teller came, that's where she went and gave her a fortune teller time, too. Yes. Yeah, there used to be a fortune teller, came from Massachusetts about every summer, and she would, yeah, she went in, and that was her room, and she had a round table, and she had this bowl, ball or something on the front, you know, and she wasn't weird-looking or anything. I went to her once. Yeah, I worked, yeah, I was working at the Norway National Bank at the time... was on vacation. And she was showed up, and I thought. I think I'm gonna go to her, just for the fun of it, because some friends and I were talking about it, and somebody had been, and they said, you know, she told me exactly something that she shouldn't even know, but she knew. And I thought, hmm, guess I'll go see her. And her name was Miss... Miss Mathis, yeah, her last name is Mathis. Well, anyway, but that's that's what that's how .. the the hotel was used by a lot. They had reunions there, some some reunion things there, and big dinners. When Mr. Fred Smith retired from Norway National, from the Norway National Bank, they had a big, dinner for him, a big celebration for him. Everybody was there that worked with the Norway National Bank. I've got a I've got a photo of that at home, of all of them. And, So, you know, it was a it was a busy place. I don't, I, I think probably the hotel, the rooms, I don't think were ever empty. I think there was always, always rooms rented there all the time. Because they had pipeline workers that came, and they used to stay there, that worked out on the Waterford Road. JD: Okay. EE: And, so, you know, it was a busy place. And, and it was... it was kept, well, it was kept clean, too. You never went in and it wasn't clean. It was always, always clean. And, but, it was you know, I that's one thing I thought was too bad that it had to be torn down, but I think it was torn down because it would have been so much to keep it up. It was it was big. It was big and lot to it. And, I was sorry that they were gonna take it down, because I felt if it was there now I can't I can't believe the tourists wouldn't have loved it. I really feel they would. And, I felt that it would have been a busy place, but anyway. So that that disappeared. And then, of course, the old Blue Store, that never was redone. They made it sound like maybe they would, but I never thought it would be, and it wasn't. JD: Too much, I think, to do it. EE: Yeah. So that went. That was kind of too bad. CR: What about your fortune? What fortune did she tell you about? EE: Oh, well, okay, yeah, good point. I went in, it was in the afternoon. And, there wasn't a lot of other people waiting. I think you, like, you had to kind of have an appointment anyway. So, I went in and sat down, and and she said, I am going to tell you a few things that, you've been thinking about. And I thought, well, this ought to be good. It was kind of scary. Well, anyway She said, I, I will, I will talk to you first, then if you, then afterward, she said, if you have something you want to ask me about, any questions or something you want to talk about, you know, do it afterward. So one thing that was on my mind before I went had to do with a relative of mine who went down in a plane in World War II. And, he had come home on a furlough for his last time. And this was Ken Caler's brother. [2] And, very nice-looking young man he was. He was younger than Ken. And he came to their house. It was the last time he ever saw anybody in the family again. And he went down, in a plane, and I have always had that on my mind. But I didn't tell her. But she told me But I know you are..you're thinking about a young man that was in the military and he went down, in an ocean and and no one ever found him. No one ever saw him again. And I thought, now, I didn't tell her that, but she told me that, exactly what she told me. JD: Yeah, kind of amazing. EE: So, I don't know...it was a... And oh, and I, I don't, I don't know. We talked about different things, and she just seems to she seemed to know. She knew there was something laid over a chair in my room, and, I couldn't get over that, and there was this little sweater on my chair. When I come home, when I come home, I had to make believe I looked...and I thought, oh, I've been wondering ...looking for that. I've been looking for it! And so I should have said to her... I should have been I've been looking for that. You know, and I mean, I just, you know, I just felt, well, when I had when I first saw her, I thought, I hope I don't grin, I hope I don't laugh about this, because somebody had already been to see her and told her ...told her some things that was true. You know? And, and anyway, and she and she, you know, she said it made her kind of nervous. And, well, it didn't make me nervous, but it was very, very surprising that that was the first thing she told me, was exactly what was on my mind. JD: I've always been afraid that I would hear too much, that I didn't really want to know what's coming on, and if it wasn't good. I would worry about it. EE: Yeah, I wouldn't know. I'd hate to yeah, I wouldn't like to. JD: Maybe they wouldn't tell you that, you know... EE: ...something that was too horrified, really. And, but, you know, my mother believed in things like that. Hmm, and is and her family did. My father just laughed about it. But, yeah, my mother, believed things like that. But, I will tell you one thing. Well, she because my mother always felt that the old farm in Waterford had a lot of spirits in it. She has felt that, yeah. JD: I remember that. EE: She has felt that, yeah. And, I don't know if she really saw anything, or not see anything, but noticed anything, but apparently relatives of hers felt they did, you know? And I know my brother, Ralph's boy....they had come hunting, and they had been in the living room, and had the fireplace going, the old farmhouse and all of it. And my brother had gone out to the kitchen to have dessert or something. They had eaten sandwiches or whatever, and they were going to go hunting again. But he went out to the kitchen to have something else to have, and his boy was in the living room in a chair in front of the fireplace and fell asleep. Well, he came out suddenly, he came out of the kitchen. And, pretty white looking, shook up, And Ralph asked, what's going on? Well, he said, yeah, he says, you know what's going on, you've been in there. Ralph said, no, I haven't been in there. And he said, well, somebody was touching my hands. Yeah, somebody was touching my hands, and Robert said, oh, wan't me. He said, I haven't been in there. So he that gave him a creep, and said he'd never go in there and stay there alone again. JD: Well, of course, that's where we vacationed, was the farm. We went on vacation to the farm. And the stories, they course you always wondered, being Joanne and I Yeah. and Jimmy, that they would try to.. spook us for fun, but it was always about a woman kind of in a white, you know, one of those, see-through type of ..ghosty dresses, and that she might be out there sometime, and Jimmy always swore he saw it, but I think he probably was just trying to scare me, but EE: Well, you never know. Well, what I thought... I saw her over there. I never liked that place. I never liked the farm. I know I I said, don't I go, don't don't blame me...me that place, I don't like it. We went over one time, it was, let's see, I don't know if Oh, I know, what whatever it was, was up in a tree, a raccoon or something, and we went over, and the it was at night..went over, and Ashley Everett, and whoever else, JD: if it was night, it would have been a raccoon. EE: I think probably John or something, anyway, and Betty and I, because Betty wanted me to go, too, because she they asked her if she wanted to go. So we went over. And it was at the back of the farmhouse on the left. Back at the farmhouse on the left side. And up in that, there's, there was, like, I call it a chamber. It was, a room that was just, not really used, for any particular thing. Storage. JD: Oh, yeah. We always called it the upper chamber. EE: No, we always, anyway, it was just a chamber. It was just, old and so forth, you know. It wasn't never redone like a room at all. Well, anyway, so we were standing there. For them to because they were going to get rid of this thing out of the because he was getting into the garden and everything, too. So they wanted to get rid of him, and I looked up in that window. There was a window in that room up there, and it wasn't a big, big window. And it looked to me like there was a woman that was dressed in an old bonnet. She was dressed in dark clothes that looked like somebody was standing there looking out. Yeah, gave me the creeps. JD: Yeah, I can see why. EE: And I thought, if you think I'd ever go in that room again, forget it. Well, you know what? I'll tell you what happened to me, too. I almost said that the house on Main Street I lived in for almost 20 years... that the hospital bought it, tore down. Well, I'm glad they tore her down, because up in the attic, I was there one day, and this was back when we were going to have I think it was the 20th, yeah, 25th, graduation anniversary was going to be for the high school, was going to be downstairs at the Congo Church, and there was a couple of other classes that were going to be there too, which was fun, because we got to see some of the other ones. And so it was going to be there, so I went up in the attic to look in a box that had, different photos in, having to do with, not just my classmates, but some of the others that I thought I'd get together to take with me. So I was sitting on the floor against the chimney, upstairs in the old attic, and I was I was just my feet was out like this, and my box was here, and I was looking at stuff and all of a sudden, there was a light going seemed seemed like a light was going back and forth. Yeah. And so, at first, I didn't think too much of it, because there are two windows in the attic, one on the front, and one toward the driveway. And, but, it was raining that day. It was not you know, it was raining that day. There was no sunshine. So anyway, I sat there for a while. That kind of gave me kind of creepy feeling, so I decided, well, I guess I'll get my stuff together and get out of here. So I picked up whatever I wanted of the photos, put the box back, I had to go around this way to put the box back. And when I went to go downstairs, that happened again. These lights were right in front of me. JD: Weird. EE: Back and forth. And it, it just gave me a terrible, terrible feeling, and I don't know what it was, or why it was, and there was no noise, no nothing, but just those lights, and, and I never forgot it. And one time, I didn't do it, but I wish I had but they, after the hospital bought that house, they used the downstairs living room part for, like, an office, because I remember Ray Brown telling us that, that he went over to pay a bill, and that's where he had to go, was in there, and, and so forth, and I thought, well, sometime I'm going to go in there and find out who, I guess it was a woman that was running that office in there...but anyway, find out if anybody had ever been in the..if anybody'd ever been in the attic, if they store anything up there, if anybody ever been in the attic, and and there was anything unusual about it. But I never did. I wish I had, but I didn't. But that, that, I never forgot it. So when the place was torn down, it really didn't bother me a bit, because I really didn't care. I didn't care. That didn't show me nothing. CR: Well, I think I think We'll all sleep not maybe quite so well tonight. JD: We'll be thinking of your stories when we go to bed tonight. JD: Right. CR: Because you've been telling us stories now for well over an hour. Oh, wow. So I'm going to try to not erase anything. Just stop it. _______________ Numbered notes [1] His name was Elliot. [2] Ken had two brothers, one was Lynn who was killed in the war. He was dating Marion Sturtevant, a friend of Ruth's.